The following are excerpts from a 7 year old discussion on alt.callahans (I was using the name ElephantChild then). (Split into 2 comments because it wouldn't fit otherwise.)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:29:54 +0100 From: ElephantChild Subject: Bilingualism and fluency (was Cultural Education was Texas...)
On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, The Trinker wrote:
> With my mother and I, some of it depends on who's around us, > some of it on the topic at hand, some of it is my tendency > to say certain things in English to her because I can't > get them out of my mouth in Japanese. (i.e. to get around > cultural strictures.)
As in, "I can use unladylike language in English, but not in Japanese"? ISTR Zed said she had similar experiences.
> ElephantChild wrote:
> > When I do that, one of the languages (or both) comes out stilted and > > clumsy. > > There's never been a time in my life when I *didn't* need to > switch back and forth. But I have that problem with Spanish > and French.
More so than you would when using only one of French of Spanish? I'm wondering whether fluency is a prerequisite to ease of switching.
> Oh! That explains a great deal. I've never encountered someone > who is primarily francophone and *not* a linguist who shows your > facility with English idiom. 9 years of residence and education > really makes a difference.
Definitely. Going back to France was... painful. And thanks, BTW. Amusingly, many people think I learned both French and English as second languages. It seems that both my French and my English have a "almost native-level fluent, but with *something* missing" flavor. :-) (Besides the accent in spoken English, that is. And also interestingly enough, people don't agree, or don't know, what my accent in English is from; guesses go all over the world map, except that France is seldom mentioned, if at all.)
> > Well, they didn't, since I learned both French and English. (leaving > > aside the question of which one they considered dominant :-) ) But they > > speak vastly different dialects of Arabic and don't use it much with > > each other, or at least never did in my presence. > > *nod* Which is part of why my half brother speaks English. > It's the primary language of communication between my mother > and stepfather. > > Are you more comfortable in one or the other (French vs. English?)
Yes, but which one depends on what I'm discussing/reading/reading about. For daily stuff (shopping for groceries, banking, etc...), I'm more comfortable with French. Or perhaps I should say "in France", as it's a matter of context and shared background as much as of language proper (which may be why I'm not confortable with dialects of French other than the one(s) used in France). For mathematics, it's French, as that's the language I was taught my math in. For most technical matters, it's English. That could be related to the ease of switching, as when reading computer-related technical documents, English will show up sooner or later, but I have trouble commenting my source code in French when I program, and the programming languages I use aren't related to English (IMHO) by more than a few borrowed words, so I don't think that should be a problem. I'm not comfortable reading poetry in either language, with a very few exceptions. I have little problems with prose, although I can spot puns (as in, I think there's a pun there, even if I don't get it) more easily in English than French. OTOH, of the puns I spot, I seem to get more in French. I'm unable to *make* puns in either language. Does that answer your question? :-)
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Date: 2008-04-03 05:14 pm (UTC)Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:29:54 +0100
From: ElephantChild
Subject: Bilingualism and fluency (was Cultural Education was Texas...)
On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, The Trinker wrote:
> With my mother and I, some of it depends on who's around us,
> some of it on the topic at hand, some of it is my tendency
> to say certain things in English to her because I can't
> get them out of my mouth in Japanese. (i.e. to get around
> cultural strictures.)
As in, "I can use unladylike language in English, but not in Japanese"?
ISTR Zed said she had similar experiences.
> ElephantChild wrote:
> > When I do that, one of the languages (or both) comes out stilted and
> > clumsy.
>
> There's never been a time in my life when I *didn't* need to
> switch back and forth. But I have that problem with Spanish
> and French.
More so than you would when using only one of French of Spanish? I'm
wondering whether fluency is a prerequisite to ease of switching.
> Oh! That explains a great deal. I've never encountered someone
> who is primarily francophone and *not* a linguist who shows your
> facility with English idiom. 9 years of residence and education
> really makes a difference.
Definitely. Going back to France was... painful. And thanks, BTW.
Amusingly, many people think I learned both French and English as second
languages. It seems that both my French and my English have a "almost
native-level fluent, but with *something* missing" flavor. :-) (Besides
the accent in spoken English, that is. And also interestingly enough,
people don't agree, or don't know, what my accent in English is from;
guesses go all over the world map, except that France is seldom
mentioned, if at all.)
> > Well, they didn't, since I learned both French and English. (leaving
> > aside the question of which one they considered dominant :-) ) But they
> > speak vastly different dialects of Arabic and don't use it much with
> > each other, or at least never did in my presence.
>
> *nod* Which is part of why my half brother speaks English.
> It's the primary language of communication between my mother
> and stepfather.
>
> Are you more comfortable in one or the other (French vs. English?)
Yes, but which one depends on what I'm discussing/reading/reading about.
For daily stuff (shopping for groceries, banking, etc...), I'm more
comfortable with French. Or perhaps I should say "in France", as it's a
matter of context and shared background as much as of language proper
(which may be why I'm not confortable with dialects of French other than
the one(s) used in France). For mathematics, it's French, as that's the
language I was taught my math in. For most technical matters, it's
English. That could be related to the ease of switching, as when reading
computer-related technical documents, English will show up sooner or
later, but I have trouble commenting my source code in French when I
program, and the programming languages I use aren't related to English
(IMHO) by more than a few borrowed words, so I don't think that should
be a problem. I'm not comfortable reading poetry in either language,
with a very few exceptions. I have little problems with prose, although
I can spot puns (as in, I think there's a pun there, even if I don't get
it) more easily in English than French. OTOH, of the puns I spot, I seem
to get more in French. I'm unable to *make* puns in either language.
Does that answer your question? :-)